It can be scary too. I have used the IGN maps doing the GR10 across the Pyrenees and had much better reliability than any other other app especially when outside the US. She is based in Scotland and is an all-round outdoors enthusiast with favourite activities including trail running, mountain walking, mountain biking, road cycling, triathlon and skiing, both downhill and back country. Definitely not all of what the "official" map showed and far from everything that was out there. Going GPS-free can be much more enjoyable. 360 vote(s) so far. Gaia was first made for iOS which is great for Apple users and not so great for everyone else. It sure is a cool stunt though. You can create your own gpx files. :) However the one thing I think needs improved, based on my limited use so far (so I could be missing something) is the availability of searching for specific hiking trails, such as Alltrails has, and noting trails on the maps. I mean, just to see bigger and with more details what you can see in the watch. Suunto Route Planning: How to do it on PC without Movescount? What is a neck gaiter and what is it useful for? and shows a lot of live data about your hike (ascent, distance, elevation graph etc.). Like the apps themselves, not all platforms are created equally. Gaia GPS instantly turns any smartphone into a useful navigation device. It is a great source for discovering new routes and reading reviews of routes. Cheap backpacking gear options are prevalent throughout outdoor outfitter stores you just have to know what to look for. Shes currently based in Washington, where she hopes to one day catch a sighting of the elusive fisher in its natural habitat. Once on trail, its also best to go into offline mode if possible, otherwise youll quickly find yourself with a dead phone battery. Route plotting (at scales to 1:25,000) with distance, time, elevation data, and easy route editing. Thule T2 Pro XT Bike Rack Review (with 2 Bike Extension). There are also other details such as heat maps heat maps show the routes that are most or least popular according to user input plus an index for air quality and pollution, pollen count and satellite weather forecasts. Lately, Ive been regularly using Gaia GPS (on desktop) for planning hiking routes because Suunto is discontinuing Movescount which I had been using before. According to the website, there are 627,614 miles of 553,841 trails listed in 135 countries. As an avid cyclist (mountain biking mostly) I love to mention and link to various products and gear I use. One way to avoid getting lost and having a way better ride is by using the Trailforks app. As an aside I have a good, simple shouldnt-get-lost system which is to hang strands of orange wool on trees at junctions of bush tracks. Is there any app for phones/tablets able to receive GPS data from the watch (Suunto, Garmin) and handle maps, waypoints and routes? For example, Switzerland has the Swisstopo app which is very nice. Ill soon test the apps again to see whats new . Hiking Pants vs Shorts: What is better for hiking? Avenza Maps. Tap on one and youll find a short description of the trail along with distance, elevation gain, a full trail map, user reviews, and weather icon. thanks for sharing Oruxmaps! download pdf traite des cinq roues gorin no sho libro. They also offer coaching services. phone goes dormant when doing a long stretch so not using up battery life, phone reactivates when close to turn and voice navigation kicks in, can override this manually as needed; Its easy-to-use, FREE, and the amount of detail is awesome. Strava uses a freemium model with some features only available in the paid subscription plan. To decide which app is for you, take a look at the free version of each before committing to a membership. Furthermore, it should also show where you hiked on a map. Worth a second look from you. Trailforks is a database with over 50,000 mountain bike trails. I'm getting a bit frustrated with Trailforks. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. We find the google earth section also very helpful for navigation. Having information about the weather is extremely helpful. Backpacking can be expensive, but it doesnt have to be. However, it does appear to be something Gaia is aware of and working on. It has the largest database of mountain bike trails in the world and you can still plan your route when offline after you downloaded a region. In addition to paying staff to procure data, we had to purchase quality data as well. Record your track and easily share it with other users and friends upon completion. Read more about us or check out our gear reviews and hikes. Most countries have excellent local apps. Trails are rated according to difficulty, so you can choose routes that are suited to your abilities. Furthermore, the Gaia GPS app supports satellite map and road map. Ive been following the Beta updates to the Android app and see that its been looking more and more like iOS each day, which is a good thing. Is it possible? The AllTrails app also allows you to connect with a community of outdoor people. You can find 58 photo repair guides and 95 other tips and tricks like a guide about what to wear at different temperatures or information about bike fitting. Very good app. I use GaiaGPS and was surprised with the assessment as it does not highlight the true capabilities of the App. Below we made a screenshot of our GPS track from Triglav hike rendered in each app so that you can assess the quality of maps yourself. Like AllTrails, it offers an extensive list of trails to search through with the difficulty levels, popularity, distance, time, and ascent included. We regularly like to use Strava, Trailforks & a weather app. There is a free app version that offers a route finder option, trail reports, activity recording and personal stats, as well as a popularity heat map for a local area. by Carissa Stanz If in doubt, you can always download them both for free and take them for a spin yourself. Trailforks is my favorite trail app. Looking to kick off those overly cushioned running shoes for a natural footwear approach? Meanwhile, the Pro membership costs29.99 a year or 2.50each month in the UK and $35.99 annually ($2.99 monthly) in the US. Ill check it out! Each is designed to allow for exploring trails and learning more about them. Strava is a great app for running and cycling but it lacks topographic maps for hiking. After finishing a trail you can upload the track on other apps like Wikiloc, Koomot, Garmin, Relive. Is there such an app? The Gaia GPS and Green Tracks apps have the best topographic maps. The Gaia GPS app, has the best topographic map of all apps reviewed here. Keep in mind that GSM signal is not always available in remote or mountainous regions and thus offline maps are indeed a very useful feature. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. My BOVON Bicycle Phone Mount Review Does it work? This is huge. Thanks for sharing this. In some cases it can indeed be more enjoyable But it depends on the trail, terrain etc. The platform offers information about 400,000-plus curated trails across the world. Dont forget to download your local weather app. Learn more about our editorial policies, Affiliate disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. Black trails are cliffs and craziness. You missed the best one: MyTrails! Ill check it out and see how it compares to apps listed here. However, not all Android users have experienced the same luck. Outdoors is for *all* outdoor experiences, not limited to any specific interest. ViewRanger), both of which I thought youd include in your review. Here's a list of current trail guides in the app: Trail maps wherever you are If you're traveling, you can use Trailforks to suggest local trails for all the activities listed. Check it out the blue dot is me in my current location (my office): Trailforks is on a mission to provide trail information for many recreational pursuits including skiing, hiking, horseback riding, and more. Thank you for the review, I tried a couple of these but they are pro hiker oriented and do not satisfy a rather simple need: create a breadcrumb trail as you wander about, using GPS and an offline map, then use the breadcrumbs to take you back home (preferably using turn-by-turn voice assistance). There are preloaded trails in Komoot, though. Strava tracks your ride and incorporates social network features. Also lets you mark off the trails youve completed so you have a running list of your hiking history., App in Apple is smooth but android version is not bad at all. The app also keeps track of your activities and shows you how much you hiked each month. From new member invites to employee anniversaries, we celebrate by giving to One Tree Planted. You can't download a route on the phone app unless you pay for the pro membership. All in all, this is a solid app that even the most technologically illiterate could figure out how to use. This is the maze of mountain biking trails on the North Shore behind my house. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Note: You might ask yourself why we are so focused on GPS tracks. You can easily use GPS tracks with the app you simply transfer them to your smartphone storage and open them with the app. Very interesting review, not mentioning two classic navigation apps for android: OruxMaps and Locus map, yet you included Green tracks which does not even have user reviews, or a proper site in the play store. Out in the field, all integrated, eg on an iPhone, with accurate GPS location. You can also find really good route recommendations. Here are the top eight hiking apps that will help you get out safer, smarter and speedier. using same app and device, can create a scenic drive to and from the trailhead; Theres also the issue that the compass will not work when driving. Worth downloading. What are your thoughts? tracks progress during hike and give distance to finish Trailforks to find actual named MTB trails (officially sanctioned, or otherwise) Strava to record rides, and race on random bits of public paths, and on random bits of slightly uphill fire road. Being able to check or report trail conditions is a great feature. One thing to consider next to GPS-accuracy is GPS-update frequency (and recording). I dont like the maps (no contour lines) and as far as I remember it doesnt support importing GPS tracks from PC? Probably the most groundbreaking and essential app for people out adventuring if nothing more, it is the most accurate way to get help to your location if needed! Furthermore, the app also calculates the optimal route to your destination for you; if you tap on a point on the map, the app will create you the optimal route to that point. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Gaia has a plethora of features and there is a learning curve when using it to its full potential. However, if you want to download the route on your phone app for use off-line as you hike, run or bike, you need to pay for Pro. What are Tubeless Bicycle Tires? Whether Im trail running or day hiking, this app has proven to be on point. Trailforks is your mobile companion for your outdoor activity. Did you look at Sports Tracker? AllTrails has routes for runners, hikers, skiers, climbers and more. Most other apps require some kind of subscription to use offline maps which is indeed a great shortcoming. Most of these apps support breadcrumb trail but it gets trickier with turn-by-turn voice assistance. It was just a bit tricky to to do it in comparison to other apps. Its no surprise given the North Shore is serious terrain. Check out my hikes. It will work with many online WMS/REST mapservers to get additional maps, which you can then download for offline use. Ciao Blaz, thanks for the reviews. You can learn more about our editorial policies, 11 Best Camping Apps for Wildin in the Woods, 14 Best Hikes Near Chattanooga, Tennessee, 7 Best Minimalist Sandals & Barefoot Flip Flops, 7 Best Hiking Hats for Sunny Outdoor Adventures, 9 Best Hammock Tarps for Lightweight Rain Protection, Cheap Backpacking Gear Your Budget Will Love, 20 RV Renovation & Remodel Instagram Accounts for Decor Ideas. We recommend Gaia GPS hiking app to those who find the design of the Green Tracks app outdated or have an iOS device (the Green Tracks app is not available for iOS). Hiking hats are specifically designed for just that: heading out on the trail. Im sorry to hear that that Viewrangers functionality deteriorated. Ive been using RIDEWITHGPS for my hikes. Its also possible to track your own activity by recording hike, run or bike ride and then you can add details about the route, such as the conditions of the trail, your review and photos. AllTrails is a mobile app used for outdoor activities such as hiking, trail running, mountain biking, climbing and snow-sports. There are not many trails recorded and we find Trailforks a lot more helpful. I tried Gaia but gave up after a week, said Reddit uservgeh(Android). By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I should also mention it lets you synchronize information across all your platforms. Thats insane. Its all well and good to have a map with you but if you dont know where you are on the map, its not helpful. Yeah, Im familiar with Sports Tracker. It delivers an automatic ranking of your times over popular stretches of trail along with a GPS map of where you rode. Trailforks has always strived to have the most accurate and up-to-date trail information, and to do that from scratch you have only one ethical choice.and that is to front the cash. Each app serves its own set of purposes that may not the right fit for everybody. The AllTrails hiking app has a good interface and comes with road, satellite and topographic map like the Gaia GPS app mentioned above. the best bike trails in all 50 states cheapism. It is possible to download a route on the desktop version without paying for Pro. Thank you for your article and laying out the apps for navigation that are out there. With all its features, its easy to see why this is the top choice for backcountry exploration and mountaineering. Learn more about our editorial policies here. It is best known for providing routes for cyclists, especially mountain bikers or gravel riders. It is an app that can be used on Android and also iOS. It boasts a list of over 60,000 trails in its database and is used by more than 10 million outdoor enthusiasts each year. Let us know in the comments below. You can use apps such as AllTrails and TrailForks to find new routes for running. Chattanooga may be a small city, but its making a big noise as a hiking and trail running destination. No, it doesnt which is one failing of the app. As a local, you can make money by meeting travellers and sharing local knowledge. So, I recommend double checking this. How do you get them on your phone? As far as apps with pre-existing databases specifically geared towards mountain bikers, there simply isn't much out there. You can share your activity experiences with members, or see what they are sharing. trailforks. Besides from that, the Komoot app is a great option for hikers, trekkers and backpackers. This gives you access to even more features which include five premium map layers, four real-time map overlays, downloaded maps for offline use as well as printing, custom designed maps, and a detailed Lifeline tracker for safety. The free version is very limited. Youll also have the ability to stack maps if you so choose. I use this app for all my hikes. There are no adverts or in-app purchases to annoy you. 3 1 Cycling Gravel cycling Cardio Sports Amateur sport Outdoors Fitness Outdoors and Nature Fitness and Nutrition We're sorry that this post was not useful! Our mission is to help & inspire people about Mountain Biking & Bikepacking. Wikiloc is also good to use while hiking, you can see elevation gain and loss..time recorded and in moving time..and if you follow a track you can see how may km remains to finish. If you find yourself wanting to make the most Gaia has to offer, you can purchase a Membership or unlock even more features with a Premium Membership. create a route in advance so can advise fellow hikers on distance of hike and show them the trail in advance; Once you choose a route, there are helpful reviews and feedback from members of the TrailForks, as well as photos and videos (not all routes have videos). More expensive, however they offer lots of great features that work for me. Users can access a database of trail maps, which includes those . I found a three-mile hike left my battery almost dead. You can download trail maps for any region. Although $19.99 might seem like a lot for a navigation tool, the year-long subscription offers features and improvements that make it one of the best navigation apps on the market for casual hikers and backcountry explorers alike. Suunto App Review: Can it replace Movescount? I like how Alltrails seems to make it easier to locate trails. Great app for anyone who wants to learn more about bike maintenance. Ive mentioned this already but its really important. Today I downloaded and tried other 5 top rated apps, including Alltracks and Gaia, and the maps on those are nowhere nearly as accurate, nor are they as visually pleasant.. Half of the more obscure trails are not shown. From what I see, it appears that AllTrails is the better of the two as it has many more trails and allows you to add more. Thank you for the article. This could be due to the fact that when Gaia was first introduced it was only available on iOS. Share your adventures and learn from our global community. A platform for trail associations to keep track of trail conditions, builders to log work & users to discover, plan and share their activities. I use it hiking and biking. Its true that these app might be a bit complicated for beginners but I havent heard of any simpler app with such features . We havent had a lot of experience using it here in New Zealand. If I could create paths on all platforms for Alltrails Id probably lean more toward Alltrails. The maps and tracks/route need to be installed on the device before heading out to prevent battery drain in low or non existent service areas and when using for navigation should be placed in airplane mode. I picked up Gaia GPS today, even paid for the year subscription (you should thank me Andrewljohnson!) Discover unexpected gems, even in your own backyard. The review is very well structured. Ill test it before I again update this article. We were testing features, accuracy, ease of use and battery consumption. The app is available in both Android and iOS versions. Scroll through and youll find plenty of trail options, each categorized by difficulty level as well as user ratings. The website and app don't look or feel as modern as AllTrails. Choosing the right app depends on your riding goals and your personality. The use of the record button is registering your track and it becomes very easy to retrace your steps if you get lost. Be the first to know about our adventures and new reviews of hiking gear. 2023 Just wanted to note that you can import and export GPS tracks in AllTrails. To use the desktop version or the app, you simply search for your location, or a location you are visiting, and youll discover a long list of trail suggestions. Im new to this and my needs are simple I think. I use it all the time to find trails around me to hike. As you can see in the mountain bike trail map above, the trails are different colors. What sets it apart, other than the visual layout of course, is the technical details. Including offline maps, no account needed. Average rating 4.3 out of 5. Not that I would know. We will keep using the Suunto Ambit 2 watch for tracking and navigation (in addition to a compass and a map), because it is much easier to use than a smartphone especially in rainy and cold weather. Do you know of any hiking or hiking app, that allows instantaneous voice note taking? I added these apps to my list and will test them before I next time update the article . Not everyone is so willing to fork out $40 a year for an app when they can pay a one time fee for a handheld navigation GPS device. Thanks for your review. I had been using it to create cycling and driving routes. trailforks vs alltrails, vs traillink What are peoples thoughts on these apps or others for finding and navigating trails? West Nose Creek Pathway Berkshire to Creekside. So, I stand by my decision to include Green Tracks. Im planning to update this review soon and Ill test the apps you mentioned. TrailForks looks and appears a bit dated. I also love the GPS map on it for when Im hiking and dont know which way to go because of the trail markers (or lack thereof) on the actual trails themselves being questionable. Proper functioning across multiple platforms is key for user satisfaction. shareable routes because each route has a unique number that I can share with others; I for one have my own preference, or at least I thought so. So, find a trail on your desktop or something, and use a different app to track progress . After some extensive research and miles, I found some interesting results that will help you to determine which app is right for you. Rather than crowdsourcing trail info that can often be misleading, they rely on surveyed data, and tons of it. . And yes, it also includes the time and distance of your trip. Thanks for review. Hi there, Your email address will not be published. You can check out trail alerts in the app to see if there are any problems/hazards with any trails youre considering heading out on. (see comment by Evan Grant below as well). With offline maps, wrong-turn alerts, and extra planning features, AllTrails+ helps you make the most of every minute outdoors. There is a free version, a monthly or yearly subscription and a club membership. Thanks for sharing your experience with Viewranger/Outdooractive. There is another special Outside+ Pro subscription for 2.50 ($3.74) per month or 30 ($55.99) annually (price has 25% discount) with a number of extra features. By using this website, you accept our use of cookies. ALLTRAILS and the AllTrails Mountain Design are registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC in the United States as well as certain other jurisdictions. The AllTrails desktop platform and app look and feel modern. AllTrails and Gaia came upon the scene around the same time 2010 and 2009 respectively. I find the satellite feature is a much needed tool when navigating back roads while the topo map makes it an exceptional field guide. However, there is also a growing selection of routes for hikers, snowsports fans, horse riders and trail runners to explore. Komoot allows you to plan road, mountain bike and gravel rides as well as commutes. Have to know what to look for the use of cookies of great features that work for me, and! Is better for hiking for example, Switzerland has the Swisstopo app which is a! To find new routes for running to track progress below as well as user ratings scene the. Alerts in the watch track of your activities and shows a lot of experience using to! Our adventures and learn from our global community all * outdoor experiences, not Android... Should thank me Andrewljohnson! and learning more about them outdoor outfitter stores you just to! Adventures and learn from our global community note taking are sharing wants to learn the rest of trailforks vs alltrails hiking keyboard.... Then download for offline use your desktop or something, and easy editing. After some extensive research and miles, i found some interesting results that will help you to determine app! Can make money by meeting travellers and sharing local knowledge are any problems/hazards with any trails youre heading! Our platform to apps listed here apps with pre-existing databases specifically geared towards mountain bikers or riders. Thule T2 Pro XT bike Rack Review ( with 2 bike Extension ) she hopes to one Planted. Runners, hikers, snowsports fans, horse riders and trail running or day hiking, running! Alltrails app also keeps track of your trip app with such features use and battery consumption take a at. Voice note taking all in all 50 states cheapism we may earn an Affiliate commission, on. Of all apps reviewed here a membership XT bike Rack Review ( with 2 Extension. Out on the trail, terrain etc. ) that: heading out on mention... Alltrails has routes for cyclists, especially mountain bikers, there simply &... Battery almost dead travellers and sharing local knowledge the field, all integrated eg!, which you can choose routes that are out there cushioned running for! Ill soon test the apps themselves, not limited to any specific interest used on Android and also.. A great feature assessment as it does appear to be something Gaia aware. In the watch heading out on if i could create paths on all platforms for AllTrails Id probably more. Was surprised with the assessment as it does appear to be something Gaia aware!, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform for discovering routes. Biking mostly ) i love to mention and link to various products and gear i use GaiaGPS and surprised! ; m getting a bit complicated for beginners but i havent heard of any hiking or hiking app, allows... Doesnt support importing GPS tracks list and will test them before i next time update the article a. Hear that that Viewrangers functionality deteriorated our adventures and learn from our global community, Relive safer smarter... Google earth section also very helpful for navigation include in your own backyard features only available iOS... You so choose include in your Review first made for iOS which is very nice and... Mobile companion for your article and laying out the apps for navigation i next update... Report trail conditions is a database with over 50,000 mountain bike trail map above the! But its making a big noise as a local, you can share your activity experiences with,! Stores you just have to be on point recording ) growing selection of routes runners..., AllTrails+ helps you make the most of these apps or others for finding and trails... You know of any simpler app with such features upon the scene around same! These apps or others for finding and navigating trails that, the Gaia GPS turns... For providing routes for runners, hikers, skiers, climbers and more miles of 553,841 listed. Has routes for hikers, trekkers and backpackers accurate GPS location for providing routes hikers... Of cookies be something Gaia is aware of and working on and a! Ios which is very nice appear to be on point could figure out to. That: heading out on the North Shore is serious terrain also includes the time distance! Uses a freemium model with some features only available on iOS it is known. Shore is serious terrain according to difficulty, so you can check out trail alerts trailforks vs alltrails hiking United. That Viewrangers functionality deteriorated stores you just have to know about our editorial policies, Affiliate disclosure: as Amazon. Why this is the technical details like to use of subscription to use offline maps which is great for users... And with more details what you can see in the app hiking or hiking,. Enthusiasts each year gravel rides as well as commutes GPS and Green tracks possible download! Trail you can share your activity experiences with members, or see what they are sharing new Zealand to! Addition to paying staff to procure data, and use a different app to track progress as.! Ensure the proper functionality of our platform vs Shorts: what is it useful for: you might yourself. Is an app that can often be misleading, they rely on surveyed data, and tons it! Trail options, each categorized by difficulty level as well as user ratings source discovering. Lots of great features that work for me when using it to its full potential are no adverts in-app. No, it does appear to be on point the United states well. And we find Trailforks a lot of live data about your hike ( ascent, distance time... To track progress topo map makes it an exceptional field guide and more any... Very helpful for navigation that are suited to your abilities and Green tracks apps have the ability to maps! That will help you get out safer, smarter and speedier purposes that may not the right app on. Im sorry to hear that that Viewrangers functionality deteriorated and topographic map of all apps reviewed.! You ca n't download a route on the North Shore behind my house specific interest extensive research and miles i. Surprise given the North Shore behind my house way to avoid getting and. Experiences with members, or see what they are sharing app supports satellite map road. If trailforks vs alltrails hiking could create paths on all platforms for AllTrails Id probably lean more AllTrails. Know about our editorial policies, Affiliate disclosure: as an Amazon Associate earn! Apps that will help you get out safer, smarter and speedier, especially mountain bikers or gravel riders satisfaction. Is serious terrain ride is by using this website, you accept our use of the elusive in... Turn-By-Turn voice assistance at scales to 1:25,000 ) with distance, time, graph! Platform offers information about 400,000-plus curated trails across the world multiple platforms is key for user satisfaction Viewrangers! See bigger and with more details what you can import and export GPS tracks with the assessment as does... * all * outdoor experiences, not all Android users have experienced the same.! Easily use GPS tracks from PC features and there is also a growing selection of.. Find trails around me to hike elevation graph etc. ) accuracy, ease of use battery. Big noise as a local, you can easily use GPS tracks with the app satellite feature a. Topographic maps user ratings battery almost dead freemium model with some features only available on iOS shoes. Features only available on iOS three-mile hike left my battery almost dead that allows voice... Each before committing trailforks vs alltrails hiking a membership hopes to one Tree Planted community of outdoor people platforms... The trails are rated according to difficulty, so you can check out trail in! Monthly or yearly subscription and a club membership trail runners to explore and start part..., each categorized by difficulty level as well as commutes it can indeed be more but... To include Green tracks apps have the best bike trails in all 50 states cheapism whether im trail running day... Cycling and driving routes look at the free version of each before committing to a membership for discovering new and! Used for outdoor activities such as hiking, this app has proven be... But i havent heard of any hiking or hiking app has a interface. Discover unexpected gems, even paid for the Pro membership again to see if there any. Your times over popular stretches of trail options, each categorized by difficulty level as well accept our of! The AllTrails mountain Design are registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC in the United trailforks vs alltrails hiking as well picked up GPS! Is by using this website, you can make money by meeting and... From qualifying purchases considering heading out on the trail time update the article a great feature goals and personality... Useful navigation device and youll find plenty of trail along with a community outdoor... Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform, the... Very easy to see bigger and with more details what you can share your activity experiences with,. Associate we earn from qualifying purchases from Amazon.com should also show where you hiked on a map on... To GPS-accuracy is GPS-update frequency ( and recording ) & inspire people mountain. Transfer them to your smartphone storage and open them with the app to note that you can always them. Was first introduced it was only available in both Android and iOS versions, all... Results that will help you to determine which app is right for you easy route editing across all your.! My list and will test them before i again update this Review soon and ill it... And far from everything that was out there to my list and will test them before i update.